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本期播客将分享经士智库总裁兼国际军事行动法研究中心主任田士臣海军上校（退役）于11月19日举行的第13届南海国际会议上所做有关海洋追踪技术的发言，以及他在联合国人权理事会第14届少数群体问题论坛上关于中国少数民族保护实践的介绍。

第一部分讨论的是应用于南海的追踪技术。田士臣首先回应了美国和越南参会者分别提交的报告，这两份报告声称基于先进跟踪技术得出了南海“海上民兵”和科研船只的活动情况，对中国的做法进行了批评。随后，田士臣以“通过跟踪技术以实现透明度的‘砍刀效应’”为题，就如何更妥当地利用海上跟踪技术表达了自己的看法，并回答了一系列问题。

第二部分讨论的是中国的少数民族权利。田士臣精炼地向联合国人权理事会及与会代表介绍了中国长期以来对少数民族充分的人权保护实践，并谴责了美国弃用公平竞争和自我发展的正途，而选择滥用所谓“人权”，遏制和压制中国的做法。

以上是本期播客的内容。更多内容敬请关注经士智库的公众号以及在YouTube上的官方账号，并通过Apple Podcast/Google Podcast/Spotify/Stitcher等各大平台播客频道收听 “经士视点（Global Governance Perspective）”。

附：播客转录内容

（播客内容：田士臣，经士智库总裁；音频编辑：江琳，智库研究助理；文字编辑：陈曦笛，智库实习生）

Section 1

Chair

Now. Let me invite Captain Shi Chen TIAN. To deliver your presentation. Captain TIAN.

Captain TIAN  

Thank you, Dr. Nguyen Hung Son. Good afternoon, my fellow panelists. First, I'd like to thank the DAV for organizing this this event. I've been to Vietnam several times and meeting nice when people and as well enjoy delicious Vietnam food. So, I'm quite honored to be here invited to share some of my views on this topic.

When I was still an LLM student, I attended a human rights lecture where some people talked about the fact that the machetes used in the Rwanda Massacre are originally from China and hinted some kind of accountability on part of China. However, the same machetes are also used in many parts of the world to cut banana. The result depends much on who used it and how to use it.

So, the same story could also be told about tracking and remote sensing technologies in the maritime domain in the South China Sea. It is a fact that rapid advancement is taking place in this area.

However, will it contribute to peace and prosperity in this area depends much on who use it and how to use it.

In this regard, I would like to remind you of the latest U.S. sea-wolf class Connecticut undersea collision incident. A vast area in the South China Sea is covered with corals and seamounts which could grow or pop up after a seismic disturbance. Given the sea-wolf class submarine is the most advanced type in the world, operating such a submerged giant under the sea entails a good maritime domain awareness that could only be achieved by using the most sophisticated tracking and remote sensing technologies.

Unfortunately, the security situation in the SCS will be even worsened with the submarine proliferation under the AUKUS pact. Adding the Australian submarines in the future into the South China Sea will increase risks in the already treacherous waters.

This time the US Connecticut only damaged itself without causing any nuclear leakage. But how one can predict consequence of another sub-collision incident. A “Chernobyl” moment in the South China Sea would be irreversible in terms of damaging maritime environment once and for all. Whatever consequence will only be left for peoples of SCS community to swallow.

The above-mentioned incidents exemplified the fact that, however sophisticated the sub-relying tracking and remote sensing technologies may be, they have been used to serve the purpose of big-power competition at the strategic level and as well militarization of South China Sea at operational level, both of which endanger peace and stability in the South China Sea.

Let me conclude by making an initiative of cooperation. The above-mentioned sub-relying tracking and remote sensing technologies should have been used for safeguarding, safe navigation, the control of maritime traffic, the detection of illegal activities, the protection of marine environment in terms of oil detection, etc. To achieve this purpose, I hereby call upon maritime powers to assist SCS neighbors with their technologies to realize peace and stability in the South China Sea. It is time for the U.S. to adjust its policy and strategic intentions in this region from all-of-government approach to contain China to help regional countries. The U.S EP3 and other advanced technologies have been used to collect data in SCS. However, during the WW II, the U.S. Flying-Tiger volunteer pilots have flied the infamous Hump Route in Himalayas to help the Chinese people. Given the summit be tween the two Presidents just this week, it is time for the U.S. to use machetes to cut bananas.

Chair

Thank you very much Captain TIAN for reminding us that no matter how suffix sophistication, sophisticated the technology advancements is, the risk of incidents, as still remain and technology should be used for peaceful purposes such as safety, increased safety of navigations traffic and to counter illegal operations. I believe that is a common purpose that we all seeking.

Question 1

Chair

So we've listened to for excellent presentation from our speakers today. And we now move on to the Q&A session.

So we have all different sources or different technology bases available in order to increase our understanding. So, the key question here is, how to use them, and how to avoid the misuse of the technology.

So we've got a question from an online participants who posed a question to all the panelists. How we can use advanced technology, such as Industrial Revolution 4.0 to support the development of vessel tracking technology and create transparency and accurate narrative on the situation on the South China Sea?

And there's another question from another online participants. Now with tracking technology, it's now impossible to hide what you're doing in the South China Sea. Vietnam has admitted that it has a maritime militia. Philippines also openly say they are establishing a maritime militia force Indonesia is following suit. Now with Mr. Hollings report, it has revealed a maritime militia force of China operating in the South China Sea. The question is for Captain TIAN, do you dispute that report? And if it's revealed, when do you think that China might admit that it has a maritime militia force?

Captain TIAN  

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me come back first to the question in raising the first one about using the data share to better manage the traffic in the South China Sea, which will definitely facilitate the freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

But however, you see this kind of the advanced technology has been used to produce and articulate this kind of report on Chinese maritime.  So, in my opinion, which this kind of technology could have been used to promote peace and stability, to facilitate freedom of navigation, but it is used I think that the technology, data collecting technology it could be used for the purpose of articulating this kind of report, it definitely could be used to facilitate the better management of the traffic. However, in my opinion, is a kind of as polling mode mentioned that it is it is supported by US State Department. Definitely, it is the agenda setting driven by the big power competition. And as well, a clear example of using the Advanced Tracking analogy to conduct this information campaign against China. This is my response. Thank you.

Chair

Thank you very much, Captain TIAN.

Question 2

Chair

There's a question from an online participants Llanddwyn（人名）.

Based on the approach of the South China Sea arbitral tribunal to examining evidence, to what extent, do you think advanced tracking technology will be used as evidence in the dispute before international courts and tribunal?

What are the benefits and risk of states submitting evidence based on advanced tracking technology to third parties’ settlements? And this questions those to any of the panelists who would like to take it up?

Captain TIAN  

Thank you. Can I take the floor?

I think that's also about the detailed study paper on the Chinese maritime law service activities. I think this kind of maritime activities just carried in the area of Chinese jurisdiction. And they are they are lawful in comply with international law. So, every country is conducting such kind of service activities.

But the point is, as just the question mentioned, that how can we use this kind of datas? And he mentioned about the ruling, arbitral ruling. I think, firstly, I would like to say that when states have problems, do state normally carry through diplomatic talks, or communications, or they must go to court to further third-party settlements?  So, for this kind of cooperation, I mean, in terms of service activities, we could, I think in terms of sovereignty, it has elements of governance. So, as to the level of governance, the South China Sea communities could come together to fix some mechanism to promote that kind of work corporations.

Thank you.

Question 3

Chair

Thank you, Captain TIAN. There is an online participant who would like to come forward.

Dr. Vu Hai Dang

Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. I would like to provide a response to Yenyen's comment. So, what we can see from the SC-SPI(uncertain word) Initiative, is a lot of Vietnamese fishing vessels or Vietnamese vessels passing by China's territorial waters. Now, I understand that you are an expert in the law of the sea. So, we must know that there is something called innocent passage. So, all ships have innocent passage, to (missing word) waters of coastal countries.

Let me show you something. Can I share my screen? Can you see the new Interface Global Ship map right now?

Chair

Yes, I do a lot of colors.

Dr. Vu Hai Dang

Yeah, you see a lot of ships in (missing word) Waters, any countries, they're just passing by. So, are we going to accuse them of various things in international law of illegal fishing as well, just because they're passing by the coast of Vietnam they're passing by the coast of China? Thank you.

Chair

Thank you very much. Any panelists would like to respond?

Captain TIAN  

I didn't quite understand the response just mentioned by Mr. Dang, I think we should separate between warships, and civilian merchant ships. It is different. And also Poling just mentioned that all the reports have open resources if they have full note. But my question is, what is the purpose for such kind of report? What is the purpose?

I think another logic I'd like to mention, at least East Malaysia of Coast Guard, they are within the Chinese jurisdiction. It’s not the US worship. So they are in the South China, they traveled a lot in life the way to the South China community areas. I think this is the logic.

And for this information, I think there are many kinds of examples of this information. I think the most we can see frequently, like the rule-based order acquisition. And my take is right, because whatever dispute between China and its neighbors because China is a big power. So, this kind of logic will always apply from the perspective of disinformation.

But the worst example is the freedom of navigation in the South China Sea. As for the disputes. The arbitration ruling is always mentioned. But we had many other examples. I think I'm not making a to(uncertain word) cookie arguments. When the US acts in the defiance of International Court of Justice in Nicaragua case, sanctioning International Criminal Court prosecutors via WSOC(uncertain word) Afghanistan investigation. When the UK ExIm(uncertain word) define several International Court of Justice in Chicago case, are they maintaining a rule-based order? Thank you.

Chair

Thank you very much, Captain 10. Well, thank you very much all the panelists and all the discussions

Section 2

The second section is an intervention made by Captain TIAN during the Fourteenth Session of the Forum on Minority Issues held by UN Human Rights Council between 2nd and 3rd December 2021. Captain TIAN introduced China’s practice in protecting its ethnic minorities to the international audience.

Captain TIAN

The practice of protecting the rights and interests of existing minority in China is precisely governed by laws and policies. One is the Law of People’s Republic of China on Regional Autonomy and the other is the Poverty Reduction Policy implemented by successive governments in the form of national strategies. These laws and policies help China to realize the goals of view and 2030 Agenda for sustainable development 10 years ahead in its plan. A good example is Tibetan Ding Zhen, who is beneficial really have made international fans. The politicized accusation of genocide in Xinjiang given by big competition has successfully diverts the global attention and convert up the fact that 56 ethnic groups in China live in peace and common prosperity which is precisely the best practice that china can provide to the international communities on protecting the rights and interests of ethnic minorities. Another reason why china’s successful practice has been neglected is that, when the international community examines china human rights issues, it always makes horizontal comparison between the east and the west with magnifying glass and never observe from the vertical perspective. The U.S. should have chosen to outcompete china through fair competition and self-development but chose to contain and suppress china. A direct consequence of that big power which impose upon china by the U.S. lack of international cooperation in protecting the rights and interests of ethnic minorities. China and the U.S. should have restricted competition, exert international leadership and invest more resources in cooperation to promote the situation of ethnic minorities around the world and as well to prevent conflict. Thank you.