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1月30日，在2022年北京冬奥会即将开幕之际，经士智库播客“经士视点（Global Governance Perspective）”节目邀请到国际奥委会前副主席、国际奥委会委员安妮塔·德弗朗茨（Anita DeFrantz）女士，请她围绕奥林匹克精神、奥运会政治化、女性与奥运会、北京东奥吉祥物等议题发表看法。这是经士智库“经士视点”播客的第六期节目，也是2022年第一期。本期节目主持人为经士智库研究员、西安电子科技大学讲师程静博士。

以下是本期博客对话全文：

程静:

大家好，欢迎收听经士智库的播客《经士视点》。在这一集里，今天我们很荣幸地邀请到Anita DeFrantz女士和我们一起谈一谈2022年北京冬奥会。首先，我想向我们的观众们介绍一下Anita DeFrantz女士。Anita DeFrantz女士是国际奥委会委员，此前曾担任两届国际奥委会副主席。她于1986年当选为国际奥委会委员，不仅是第一位当选的非裔美国人，也是第一位在该委员会任职的美国女性。非常感谢！2022年北京冬奥会下周就要召开了，很高兴今天邀请到Anita DeFrantz女士来跟我们分享她对这个非常激动人心的大事件的经验、想法和期望。Anita DeFrantz女士，非常感谢，我们将从一些问题展开本次讨论。

Hello, everyone！Welcome to Global Perspective, a podcast presented by global governance institution. In this episode, we are very honored to have Ms Anita DeFrantz with us today to talk about the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympic Games. First, I would like to introduce to our audience about Ms Anita DeFrantz. And Miss DeFrantz is a member of International Olympic Committee and previously served two terms as a vice president of the IOC. She was elected to IOC membership in 1986, making her not only the very first African American, but also the first American woman to serve on the committee. Thank you very much. Well, Beijing 2022 is coming up just next week. Miss DeFrantz, I believe is indeed the very person that we are like to show, you know, hear from about her experience her thoughts and expectations about this very exciting big events. Ms. DeFrantz. Thank you very much and we shall start with the questions.

Anita DeFrantz:

非常好。

Very good. 

程静:

好，首先，在新冠病毒，尤其是如今的奥米克隆病毒，依然在全球范围内激增的当下，2022年北京冬奥会依然会如期进行。在这种特殊的情况下，您认为是什么将全世界的运动员和教练聚集到了北京？

Okay, so, first of all with Coronavirus, especially the Omicron virus at the moment, still surging around the world, the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympic Games will still go ahead as scheduled. What do you think is the most important thing or value that brings all the athletes and coaches across the world together to Beijing in this particular situation? 

Anita DeFrantz:

我把奥运会称为“展现人类卓越的庆典”。而运动员总是努力做到最好，做到最优秀。尤其是在比赛中，他们学会了相互尊重和公平竞争。我们都知道奖牌就只有那么多，然而我们都住在奥运村的经历很特别，或许这次没那么多，但我们互相分享关于我们的生活和我们的期望。即使在赛后我们可能成为好几十年的老朋友，现在我的一些朋友就是1976年开始认识的。

I call the Olympic Games as “Celebration of human excellence”. And athletes always strive to be the best, to be the most excellent. And especially at the games, they learn about mutual respect and fair play. We all know there not enough metals to go around. And yet we live in the village. Well, not so much this time maybe, but sharing information for one another about our lives and what we expect after the game. And we become friends for decades. I have some friends from 1976. Still.

程静:

好的。的确，相互尊重和公平竞争是关键词。非常感谢。众所周知，除了疫情，政治和意识形态的差异也给2022年北京冬奥会蒙上了阴影，因此2022年北京冬奥会筹备工作的期间充斥着对人权问题的批评。例如，国际工会联合会在报告中声称，中国应该获得一枚“迫害金牌”，指责2022年北京冬奥会和国际奥委会未能应对该国的人权问题。因此，由于所谓的“侵犯人权行为”，一些国家甚至对冬奥会实施外交抵制。从您的角度和您的经历来看，您如何评价政治对奥运会的干预？

Great. So mutual respect and fair play are the keywords, I guess. Thank you so much. And as you know, in addition to pandemic, politics, and ideology differences, also shadowed the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics, so criticism over human rights issues have dominated the build up to Beijing 2022. For instance, the International Trade Union Confederation has claimed in the report that China should be awarded a gold medal for repression, criticizing Beijing 2022 and the International Olympic Committee for failing to address human rights issues in the country. So some countries are even set to implement a diplomatic boycott of the games because of the alleged human rights abuses. From your perspective, from your experience, how do you comment on the political interference in the Olympic Games?

Anita DeFrantz:

我过去常说政治是一项“旁观者运动”。但我们并不是国际奥委会内部的政客，我们无权与政府打交道，比如与主办城市签订合同，确保他们正常组织比赛，以便运动员有最好和最公平的机会参加比赛，并实现他们的目标，达成所认为的奥运会的意义。大家都认为奥运会可以神奇地让世界变得完美，但是很遗憾并非如此。但是，我要告诉你，奥运村的确是我们想要的与他人共同生活并互相尊重的世界。尽管奖牌的数量就那么多，很多运动员并不能带着奖牌回家。但是那里有尊重，当人们相互尊重时，即使没有奖牌也荣光。

Well, I used to say politics is a spectator sport. But we are not politicians within the IOC. We have no remit to deal with governments say for having a contract with host city, to make sure that they organize the game so that the athletes will have the best and fairest chance to compete, and to fulfill their goals. That's what the Olympic games are about. I'm so sorry that everyone thinks that the Olympic Games can magically make the world perfect. Although I will tell you that the Olympic Village is the way the world we want to be with everyone living there and respecting one another. And again, realizing there not enough metals to go around. So many of the athletes will not go home with a medal. But there is that respect, and that dignity that comes when you respect one another.

程静:

的确如此。您把政治描述为“旁观者运动”，很有意思。非常感谢。我的下一个问题关于参加2022年北京冬奥会的运动员。2020年东京奥运会为在疫情期间举办奥运会提供了一些经验。尽管如此，新冠病毒对本届冬奥会的威胁仍然引起了许多人的高度关注，特别是在安全和健康问题上，您对参赛运动员是否有一些建议？

Yeah. Yeah, going back to politics as kind of, you know, sort of a spectator sports. Okay, thank you very much. And so my next question is actually regarding, you know, the athletes attending the Beijing 2022. So well, the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games provided some experience and lessons for holding Olympic Games in the pandemic. Still, the Coronavirus threat to this winter Olympics keeps a very high concern for many people do you know particularly has some recommendations for the participating athletes, particularly in terms of safety and health issues?

Anita DeFrantz:

首先需要做的当然是关注行动手册，手册列出了他们需要知道的关于在比赛的注意事项，等等。此外，一定要留意代表团信息，会提供最新的信息，将能够引导你，以确保你有机会参赛奥运会，往往都需要紧跟代表团信息。自2020年东京奥运会以来，行动手册详细列出了参赛的所有责任和要求。我不知道你能不能记得住所有条目，但是要多加注意。

Well, certainly keep up with the playbooks which lay out all they need to know about what they need to do to compete at the game, and so forth. And also, please listen to your shift admissions, they have the most up to date information, and they'll be able to lead you in the way you need to go to make sure you have a chance to compete at the Games. But this is always the case where you need to follow your shift admissions. And since the Tokyo 2020 games, the playbooks really lay out all responsibilities and requirements that you have while being at the game. So I don't know if you can memorize it, but pay close attention to that.

程静:

没错。再加上闭环政策，我相信北京会帮助奥运村里的运动员做好相关安排。

Yeah. And also with the closed loop policy. And I guess, you know, I'm sure Beijing will make sure you know, everything will work out all right for the athletes in the village as well. I guess.

Anita DeFrantz:

我已从到了奥运村的人那听说了，这些场馆非常棒。当然，因为疫情的原因，可能不能像我们以前那样。但我认为人们会明白他们是世界的一部分，他们参赛本身将会让世界变得更美好。

I've already heard from those who are there that the venues are just excellent. Of course we don't get to do it the way we did it back in my day because of the pandemic. But I'm assuming that people will have this opportunity to understand that they're a part of the world, and they're making the world a better place by being there.

程静:

是的。此外，我还看了一些社交媒体上的帖子，说她们很喜欢在奥运村的生活。这对运动员来说太棒了。最后，我想，对于来自世界各地的所有运动员来说，尽管存在着语言、宗教和多样文化的诸多差异，他们都有着同样的奥林匹克精神。您能和我们分享您对奥林匹克精神的理解吗？

Yeah, yeah. And also, I read some of the, you know, the social media posts about how they are actually enjoying the staying in the village. Yeah. So that's great for the athletes. And finally, actually, I think, you know, for all the athletes from all over the world, they all shared the Olympic spirit. So regardless of language, religion, and diverse cultural differences, so would you please share with us your understanding on the Olympic spirit, please?

Anita DeFrantz:

奥林匹克精神深深植根于所有这些运动员之中，他们非常期待这次比赛的机会，这无疑是在以许多我们无法得知的方式指引着他们的生活，除非我们与每一个人交谈。这是一个在全世界面前展示他们能力的机会。另一方面，虽然这样说有点夸张，但他们正在我们眼前创造历史。这就是我认为世界热爱着奥运会的理由，他们看到成功的和不太成功的运动员都在一起竞争，有成有败。另外，除了这个和平的世界外，我们还能在哪里让世界各国人民走到一起，不管运动员个人的目标如何，都最终有一个美好的经历呢？

Well, the Olympic spirit is deeply within all of these athletes, who knows how long they've looked forward to this opportunity to compete, it certainly has directed their lives in many ways that we can't know unless we talk to each one. And this is a chance to show what they can do in front of the whole world. It's a little bit frightening to say it that way. But on the other hand, they're making history before our eyes. And that's I think why the world loves the Olympic Games, they see the successful and the not so successful athletes all competing. And again, a world at peace. I mean, where else can we have the nations of the world come together on a peaceful playing field, and have a great experience, no matter what happens to the individual athletes goals.

程静:

是的，所以这真的是一个非常迷人的地方，来自世界各地的运动员，聚在一起，心存同一个目标。真正的相互尊重，公平竞争，真是一件令人兴奋的事情。当我了解您的背景时，我发现，您在很多场合中都会谈论到女性的平等权利。对女性运动员，对那些努力追求梦想的人，对世界各地的女性，您有什么想说的吗？

Yeah, so this is really a very fascinating place where athletes, people from, you know, all over the world come together and really have bear in mind one goal. So it is really mutual respect and fair play and fair competition, I guess. This is really exciting event to look forward to. And also because, I think, when I read into your background, I realized that you know, on many occasions, you talk about the equal rights, you know, for women. So what would you like to say, in particular to women around the world, to women, athletes, as well as to those who are striving hard to pursue their dreams?

Anita DeFrantz:

是的，我想提醒全世界的男人和女人一句，我们都是平等的人。对于我们为何要有平等的机会呢，答案亦是这么简单。我们是一个种族，人类都是一样的。虽然我们每个人都是独一无二的，即使是同卵双胞胎也不完全相同，但是我们是同一个种族，我们都是平等的人类。我们都应该有平等的机会表达自己的观点，追求目标，并有机会在和平友好的竞争环境中实现这些目标。

Yes, well, I'll remind the entire world men and women that we are all equally human. So why should we have equal opportunity? It's as simple as that. We are one race, the human race are all the same. Each of us is unique, even identical twins are not identical. But we're one race. And we're all equally human. And we should all have equal opportunity to express our side ourselves, to go after goals and to have a chance to meet those goals on a peaceful friendly playing field.

程静:

没错，很好。非常感谢。最后，我想听听您对吉祥物的看法。以往这么多届的奥运会，我们都有很多可爱的吉祥物，您觉得2022年冬奥会的吉祥物怎么样？比如，“冰墩墩”熊猫，一个动画形象的熊猫。您认为它有助于向世界传达2022年北京冬奥会的信息吗？

Yeah. Great. Thank you so much. And, you know, finally, I would like to hear from you about and you know, the mascot. So basically, I think it's through so many Olympic Games, and we've got so many lovely mascots, and how do you think of the mascot for Beijing 2022? For example, you know, the “冰墩墩”, the Panda, the animated panda. Do you think it could help convey the message of Beijing 2022 to the world?

Anita DeFrantz:

吉祥物主要是为了让孩子们能够喜爱并欣赏它们所代表的东西，到时候获奖者肯定会抱着可爱的熊猫吉祥物。

Well, the mascots are primarily for children to fall in love one and appreciate what they represent. And I think you got some winners there in Beijing with the pandas.

程静:

是的，这实际上是一种培养对运动的热爱的方式，并试图让孩子们也对运动感兴趣。

Yeah, so basically, yeah, this is actually a kind of way to nourish the love in sports, and try to get children are interested in sports as well.

Anita DeFrantz:

没错。孩子们是我们的未来。他们能够看到这种和平的竞争将在他们的世界和我们的世界中产生巨大的影响。

Exactly. And the children are our future. And them being able to see this peaceful competition will make a huge difference in their world and our world in the future.

程静:

通过在心中种下一颗种子，孩子们会参与到这相互尊重和公平竞争的运动世界中来。

So hopefully, you know, by planting a seed in your hearts, the children will come to participate in this, you know, the world of sports of mutual respect and fair play, I guess.

Anita DeFrantz:

没错。这将是一件美妙的事情，我们在这个世界上非常需要它。

Yeah. That would be a wonderful thing to happen and we need it so much in this world.

程静:

没错。很好。您看，后天就是中国的除夕了，您有什么想说的吗？尤其是对全世界的中国观众？

Yeah. Great. And because, you see, the day after tomorrow, would be the Chinese New Year's Eve. And what would you like to say, in particular to the Chinese audience across the world?

Anita DeFrantz:

祝你们新年快乐，享受新的一年。我知道你们的日历很长，相比之下我们的很短，但我相信这个世界就像是一个奥运村。

Enjoy your new year and make this year the best year ever. I know you have a very long calendar, and ours is very short in comparison, but just believe that the world can be like an Olympic Village.

程静:

太好了，非常感谢。我想向2022年北京冬奥会致以最好的祝愿，也祝您新年一切顺利。

Great. Thank you so much. And I would like to send best wishes to Beijing 2022, and also all the best to you as well for the new year.

Anita DeFrantz:

北京见。

I'll see in Beijing.

程静:

希望有一天我们能在北京见到您。非常感谢您能抽出时间接受我们的采访。也感谢您对北京冬奥会的祝福。谢谢。

Yeah. Hopefully, we'll see you in Beijing sometime. Thank you very much for your time with us for the interview. And thank you for you know, your wishes to Beijing 2022 as well. Thank you. 

Anita DeFrantz:

谢谢你的邀请。

Thank you for inviting me.

视频编辑：江琳，经士智库新媒体助理

文字编辑：莫祖明，经士智库研究助理

翻译：莫祖明、程静